Broken Ground | Season 5 | Episode 5

Lesson 5: Embrace Your Allies

As aquifer advocates and the residents of southwest Memphis in the path of the pipeline began looking for help pushing back against Byhalia’s plans, they quickly learned not to assume who would join their cause. From city councilpeople and county commissioners to attorneys and media outlets, the first people to step up weren’t always who they expected.

Episode Transcript

Broken Ground Season 5 Episode 5


August 24, 2022



Host: In the first episode of this season, we introduced you to Ms. Scottie Fitzgerald. She’s the woman who grew up near the Valero oil refinery, who remembered…

Scottie Fitzgerald: You could smell it, it smelled like old rotten eggs. 

Host: And who watched neighbor after neighbor get diagnosed with cancer. Well, there’s a lot more to her story. Back in 2018, Ms. Scottie got a weird call from a man named Sonny. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: Sonny was one that was working for the Byhalia pipeline.

Host: She’d never heard of it. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: And he asked, ‘Can we do a survey on your property?’ And I said, ‘A survey for what?’ He said, ‘Well, we want to run a pipeline down through there.’ I said, ‘Well, no, I don’t want anybody surveying. I’m good.’ 

Host: Then, a whole year later, a woman shows up on her property. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: ‘We’re going to do a survey.’ I said, ‘No, you’re not!’ 

Host: Even though she said no, Ms. Scottie later got paperwork with photos of a completed land survey in the mail. They’d just gone ahead and done it anyway. 


Scottie Fitzgerald: And I’m thinking, what is this? Because I’m not open to pipeline activity. I wasn’t thinking like that. I just wasn’t. And I didn’t think that you could come up and just take my property cause you wanted it. 

Host: The pipeline developers hadn’t provided any contact information – nothing on how to get back in touch with Sonny or anyone else in charge. But Ms. Scottie wasn’t going down without a fight. She figured, Sonny had found her … so she could find Sonny.

Scottie Fitzgerald: Thank God for Google. I found Sonny’s address  and I told Sonny, I said, “Well, I’ve looked you up too.” I said, “Sonny, you got all the billionaires and millionaires behind you to take my property, but let me tell you who I got behind me, and in front of me. Our creator. I’m going to God about this. And I did.

Host: This is Broken Ground, a podcast by the Southern Environmental Law Center. I’m Leanna First-Arai, your host. Here at Broken Ground, we dig up environmental stories in the South and introduce you to the people at the heart of them. People like Carrington Tatum, the local journalist who reported nearly 40 stories about the Byhalia Connection pipeline. 

Carrington Tatum: To be able to stand up to injustice, to dismantle it, they have to know about it. As a result, that information is power. 

Host: If you missed that episode, I really hope you’ll go back and listen.



Pria Mahadevan: We just crossed into Mississippi. I do not know the name of the town we are in.


Host: One afternoon last winter, the Broken Ground team drove just over the Tennessee border into Mississippi to meet Scottie Fitzgerald in person. 

Pria Mahadevan: I really hope she’s here. 

Eli Motycka: Me too.

(Car doors opening/closing)

Host: The day we visited her at home, she pulled a caramel cake fresh out of the oven.

Scottie Fitzgerald: And taste a little piece of that cake I baked. It’s a bundt. It’s goood too.

Host: Even though Ms. Scottie and her husband live in Olive Branch, Mississippi now – about a mile south of Memphis – her family has lived in southwest Memphis for generations. 


Host: As a child she remembers her grandparents’ lush garden on a two-acre plot of land in the Walker Homes neighborhood. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: And we would have – it would be peanuts and some grapes, plums, peaches, potatoes, corn. They were on this property, mind you now, but it wasn’t theirs. 

Host: So when Ms. Scottie’s mom Almeda was a teenager, she set out to buy the land from the white woman who owned it. She got a job in Toledo, Ohio and sent back as much as she could of her 20-dollar-a-week salary to pay off the property. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: My mother had to work hard. She worked without, I’ve seen her go without. 

Host: The sacrifices her mother made to buy their family’s land in southwest Memphis – Ms. Scottie saw that up close. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: She was the backbone. She was a wife, a mother, a business woman. But she was a fighter. And it’s a lot of Black women have had to fight like that. 


Host: The piece of Southwest Memphis land that Almeda Fitzgerald toiled so hard to secure is now part of Miss Scottie’s generational inheritance, and will be part of HER daughter Rhonda’s. The two acres are undeveloped, but the family has ideas – perhaps for a bed and breakfast, or a duplex. Either way, Ms. Scottie never IMAGINED someone would try to take the land away from her. 


Host: So, when she first hears from Sonny the land agent, and then when she gets the land survey report, she does what she’s done her whole life when she’s been challenged … what she did when she got ovarian cancer … when she got breast cancer … when her mother died. She turns to God. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: I’m a strong believer because I’ve been healed from cancer. I’ve had a lot of things that happened to me and it was God’s hand that did it. I stayed in his faith. And some days it would be an all day talk, all day walk.

Host: Ms. Scottie starts praying, and doing some research, and then … Kathy Robinson, Kizzy Jones and Justin J. Pearson form Memphis Community Against the Pipeline, and begin to zero in on affected landowners. And that’s how Ms. Scottie gets the next piece of bad news about the pipeline, just a couple of days before Christmas 2020. The company is suing her. 


Scottie Fitzgerald: I didn’t even know it! Kathy texted me. 

Host: That’s Kathy Robinson. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: Well, find out Kathy’s cousin was my best friend. I didn’t know that. So she texts me and she said, ‘They’ve sued you.’ And I said, ‘Sued me how? I got no paperwork.’ 

Host: It turns out that the Byhalia pipeline company had somehow lost track of Miss Scottie since surveying her land, so they told the court that they couldn’t serve her her legal paperwork in person. Instead – and this is a totally legit way to do this – they would publish a court notice four weeks in a row in one of the city’s local newspapers. If Ms. Scottie saw it, great. If not, oh well. Luckily, Kathy Robinson gives her a heads-up. With Christmas just around the corner, Ms. Scottie is worried.

Scottie Fitzgerald: The courts were closing and I couldn’t say anything to anybody. 


Host: There’s a term Byhalia used in their lawsuit against Ms. Scottie – eminent domain. She had a basic understanding of what that meant.

Scottie Fitzgerald: I was thinking eminent domain was if your city needed a portion of your property, to make a sidewalk or something that would benefit the city. 

Host: She’s right. Eminent domain gives the government or – this is important – another government-approved entity – the power to take private property for public use, as long as the landowner is fairly compensated. But an out-of-state company transporting privately owned crude oil through a privately owned pipeline for private profit? Ms. Scottie didn’t see how “public use” applied. 


Scottie Fitzgerald: If it was a sidewalk, I could walk down the sidewalk every time I felt like walking, but what are you doing? 


Host: Turns out that’s a really good question, with a complicated legal answer. 

George Nolan: It’s important to understand that in order for a company to use the power of eminent domain and take land, there’s two really important things that have to be true.

Host: That’s George Nolan, senior attorney with the Southern
Environmental Law Center.

George Nolan: One is the government has to have clearly given that power to the private company.

Host: So, there needs to be a statute – a literal law – from the federal or state government saying that, okay, this particular company or industry is doing such important work that they can ALSO use this incredible government power of eminent domain …   

George Nolan: And the second thing is that the proposed taking of land has to be for a public purpose.


Host: George and his colleagues at SELC weren’t convinced that the project met either requirement. And …

George Nolan: Just the injustice of having these landowners be sued by this big company and have that company claim that power. That was a circumstance that I just felt was intolerable to stand by and watch.

Host: But he knows that with eminent domain invoked, it will be an uphill battle. 

George Nolan: When a landowner puts up that fight, in most instances, they lose. So the system is not fair; it doesn’t treat the parties with lower economic power fairly. 

Host: But George and his colleagues at SELC are determined to see what they can do to make things different this time. 


George Nolan: So we were really interested to see what are the laws that the pipeline company was relying on in support of its claim that our legislature had given it the power to take land from Tennesseeans? 

Host: States like Texas and Oklahoma, where the oil industry is king and oil pipelines crisscross the land, DO grant that permission by law. Even here in Tennessee there are statutes that allow so-called “natural gas” companies to use eminent domain to build pipelines. But Tennessee’s never been an oil-heavy state. And so, the law around whether or not an OIL company could use eminent domain here is a lot murkier – which George thinks might fall in their favor. 

George Nolan: These statutes were as clear as mud. They didn’t mention crude oil pipeline companies. And so we felt if vigorously contested, the pipeline company was going to have a big problem getting over that first hurdle. 


Host: But George has his own hurdle to clear. He has to work within the confines of SELC’s nonprofit structure – they generally represent community organizations in court, not individuals like Ms. Scottie.

George Nolan: So we needed to find a law firm representing the individual landowners. So I talked to my dear friend Scott Crosby  in Memphis. 


Scott Crosby: I met George second year of law school.

Host: Scott Crosby is an attorney with Burch, Porter and Johnson in Memphis. BPJ is an historic local law firm. They even represented the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Junior during the Sanitation Workers’ strike. But before Scott ended up here, he and George were law school roommates at the University of Virginia. 

Scott Crosby: We talked for a little bit and he says, well, listen, we’ve got this case down there and, it involves, uh, your aquifer and it’s an eminent domain suit, Scott. You’ve got time? Do you want to do that? I said sure. I didn’t think two seconds about it for, I guess, three reasons. One, I like George and he hasn’t asked me to do lots of things, so sure. Two, he said they’d do a lot of the heavy lifting, so don’t worry about it. Okay. And three, I was completely naive. I had no idea the complexity of the moment.



Host:. It’s already January of 2021 when Scott jumps onto the case. According to Byhalia’s original pre-COVID timeline, the company should be breaking ground on construction right NOW. Of course, they still need to acquire that all-important federal permit, “Nationwide Permit 12.” But in the meantime, the company is running full-steam ahead trying to snatch up land rights. And there are already eminent domain hearings on the court’s schedule. 

Scott Crosby: We’re going to go down and argue this case, probably not briefed as best as we wanted to. 

Host: But then a stroke of luck: the first hearing is delayed as the court system opts to consolidate ten separate cases under a single judge. As Scott digs into the case files, he realizes a couple of things right away, the most important of which is …  


Scott Crosby: The vast majority of people had already signed away their rights by the time George calls me. 


Host: Scott’s talking about the PROPERTY rights landowners were giving up when they signed those easement agreements with the pipeline company. By the time he came on the case, more than 50 landowners had already signed one. Scott thought the terms of the easements were pretty outrageous.  

Scott Crosby: The easement allows them to build this oil pipeline in your front yard or side yard, whatever, just below the surface. And there’s going to be a 24 inch crude oil pipeline, high pressure – like water coming out of a fire hose. I always imagined you could hear it. So you’re sitting in your front porch, looking at your front yard. Your kids are playing on this. No one’s going to want to buy your property. And when they’re done with it and they don’t want to push any oil through there anymore, they can leave it in the ground for eternity. Period. That’s what you sold for like 800 bucks. 

Host: In most cases, easement payments varied between a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. Eminent domain law says Byhalia has to offer what’s called, “just compensation” for the property it takes, but given decades of racist land devaluation in these predominantly Black communities, the amounts the company was offering seem anything BUT just. And either way, no amount of money would have been sufficient in Ms. Scottie’s eyes.

Scottie Fitzgerald: And so I just told them NO. 

Host: But she knows … others didn’t make that same choice. 


Scottie Fitzgerald: But see, they sold with ignorance because they didn’t understand, you’ll never be able to do anything with your property or sell it.

Host: Because under the terms of the easement, you can’t build a shed, put up a fence, or even plant a tree on the piece of your property with the pipeline underneath it unless you get quote unquote “express written consent” from the pipeline company. But you still pay property taxes on the whole thing.

Scottie Fitzgerald: So you got hoodwinked and bamboozled!


Host: But say you did understand, and – like Ms. Scottie – you refused to sign. Well, that’s when Byhalia would invoke the power of eminent domain and sue you. The kicker? 

Scott Crosby: If you don’t respond after being served within 30 days, you’ve lost your right to contest the eminent domain. 

Host: That 30-day clock applies in other kinds of civil cases as well, but because the penalty here is, effectively, land loss, it seems particularly unbelievable. And of the 10 active court cases Scott is handed, the majority are already beyond that 30 day window. 

Scott Crosby: There were just a few individuals who just said, they’re not signing under any, for any amount of consideration, and were not in a default setting, hoping against hope that something might break their way. 

Host: Of course, one of those individuals hoping for a miracle was Scottie Fitzgerald. She’d been planning to represent HERSELF in court,  until Kathy Robinson helped connect her with Scott Crosby. 

Scottie Fitzgerald: Ooooh, Mr. Crosby. I like him. He’s such a sweet guy. And he took the time to explain to me what was going on, cause I didn’t know. Legal beagle. A lot of us can’t read that stuff. And a lot of us don’t know.

Host: Scott represented not just Ms. Scottie, but another 38109 resident who had ALSO managed to hold off the pipeline company so far – Clyde Robinson. Remember his daughter Marie Odum? She’d shown up at MCAP’s first rally in December to ask for help with her father’s  lawsuit. Mister Robinson owns an acre of land in Boxtown  – land that he’s maintained for 60 years. 


Clyde Robinson: The land has value.

Host: This is Clyde Robinson speaking in a video that MCAP shared on its Facebook page.

Clyde Robinson: I’m not about to just stoop over for a few pennies. If I’m gonna get some millions and some twillions out of it, well, then I’ll deal with you. But just to turn around for seven or $800 or two or $3,000 dollars, you can go on somewhere else cause it ain’t finna’ to happen. 


Host: Finding an attorney to represent landowners pro-bono wasn’t just a game changer for people like Scottie Fitzgerald and Clyde Robinson; it was also a win for MCAP, who’d promised they would help. By early 2021, MCAP isn’t just Kathy, Kizzy and Justin anymore. Their Facebook page has around 500 followers – a number that will eventually grow to nearly 5,000. Justin provides regular video updates there.

Justin J. Pearson: I am so thrilled and excited to be with you here live on Facebook … Today is an important day for the work that we’re doing … Hey folks. Tonight, we had an amazing meeting … Good morning, Memphis … Hey team … Hello everyone … Hey everybody … Hey y’all, we’re back. I’m sorry I had to put you in my pocket.


Host: At this point, MCAP has the support of a U.S. congressman and several state legislators, but the city council, county commission – even the city and county mayors – have so far been silent on the pipeline. MLK50 reporter Carrington Tatum remembers … for a while, local politicians had been kind of playing a game of high-stakes hot potato. 

Carrington Tatum: In some of the early stories, you know, you had a lot of elected officials, who were like, ‘Ooh, you know, this isn’t a, this isn’t a city issue. This isn’t a county issue. So we can’t take this up. Sorry, there’s nothing we can do.’ 


Host: In one article, Carrington writes about Edmund Ford, Junior. Even though he’s the County Commissioner who represents Boxtown, he’s advocating for his fellow commissioners to sell COUNTY-OWNED property TO Byhalia. He hasn’t yet addressed his constituents’ concerns about the pipeline, nor has he responded to pressure from MCAP. Ford Junior does, however, namecheck Kathy and Justin during a county commission meeting. He suggests that they have “an agenda.” Which of course they do: to stop the pipeline.

Edmund Ford, Jr.: (in meeting) They need a civics lesson, or they should be called out on what they’re doing. Especially one lady who was using Norton Road as her address, but she lives in Nashville. 

Host: He’s alluding to the fact that Kathy lives outside the city, but has been calling on elected officials – like Ford Jr. – who represent her mother in southwest Memphis. 

Kathy Robinson: Okay, ‘cause I’m in Nashville, I can’t fight for issues in southwest Memphis? And so then Carrington calls with the MLK50. ‘How do you feel about that?’ I was like, ‘I don’t care if I was living in Russia, if it comes to Southwest Memphis, I’m fighting for it.’  


Batsell Booker: (at rally) Where is our representation? Why is it always in our neighborhood? 

Host: Batsell Booker, the president of the Boxtown Neighborhood Association, addresses Ford Junior’s lack of support at a February rally with a half-dozen attendees.

Batsell Booker: (at rally) But we are here. And we ain’t going nowhere! We are a people machine. You’re going to have to deal with us.

Carrington Tatum: MCAP, they were always convinced that local governments had power. 

Host: This is Carrington again.

Carrington Tatum: And so it seemed like, you know, one at a time, they were sort of going to these elected officials and persuading them that they did have power.

Kathy Robinson: By this time, you know, we’re reaching out to more politicians, even politicians outside of the district. So the little, um, can’t think of his name, the little guy that wears the bow tie, like … 

Pria: Jeff Warren? 

Kathy Robinson: Yes!! 

Jeff Warren: Yes, I’m Dr. Jeff Warren. I’m a family physician and  Memphis city council member. 


Host: Jeff Warren is the “guy with the bow tie.” The largely white district he represents in Memphis does NOT include Boxtown, or Westwood, or West Junction. So everything that’s happened up to this point in the podcast with respect to the pipeline, he admits he wasn’t really aware of it. Though maybe that’s how the pipeline company wanted it.

Jeff Warren: This was a stealth maneuver. You know, the way they do these sort of things is they get all the permits done, they buy all the land and then they make the announcement when it’s a done deal. So I don’t think city council had any idea that it was coming through. At least I didn’t until I heard from Justin. 


Host: The evening before a January rally at Mitchell High School, Justin had emailed all of the city council members to encourage them to attend. A little after midnight, Jeff Warren emailed him back.

Justin J. Pearson: He said, “Wait, what’s going on?” And I respond back, “Here’s what’s happening. It’s a terrible instance of environmental racism, environmental injustice. We need help and support.” He said okay, I’ll be there. 

Host: Jeff Warren had been a city councilor for only a year at this point, but he’d been a doctor for nearly 40, so it was the potential health impacts of the pipeline on the aquifer that concerned him the most. 

Jeff Warren: Because it was water, and because I’m a doctor, and because it was the health of the community, I felt like it was reasonable for me to go listen to what he had to say. 

Justin J. Pearson: (speaking at the rally) Local state, federal electives can all do something. They can all do something. 

Jeff Warren: And once I heard what he had to say, I felt like I needed to do something about it.


Justin J. Pearson: After the rally, he says, “Okay, what we’ll do is push legislation at the city council, but let’s start with a resolution.” 

Host: Kathy Robinson was impressed by how quickly Jeff Warren – who’s white – hopped on board, especially since the neighborhood’s own city and county elected officials – who are Black – were still dragging their feet. 

Kathy Robinson: Well, it was like, okay, we gonna roll with whoever support us. 

Host: It was an important lesson: that they should be prepared to embrace unexpected allies.

Kathy Robinson: The City Councilman that does represent the district, felt some type of way about it, cause he’s like, you know, ‘This is my district, my people.’

Edmund Ford, Sr.: (during virtual meeting) I’ve been getting a lot of flack. 

Host: That’s Edmund Ford Senior, the city councilman who ACTUALLY represents Boxtown speaking during a virtual council meeting. And yes, he’s the father of county commissioner Edmund Ford Junior, who we talked about earlier.


Edmund Ford Sr: (during virtual meeting) I do not want to be Flint, Michigan. Okay? And, uh, y’all please forgive me, but I really have to say this: Flint, Michigan was Black people. And my district is Black people, and that ain’t going to happen. 

Kathy Robinson: ‘This ain’t gonna be like Flint, Michigan.’ You know, so it was like, okay, we getting somewhere now. 


Jeff Warren: (during virtual meeting) Now, therefore be it resolved:

Host: Less than two weeks after attending MCAP’s rally, Jeff Warren introduces a resolution – co-sponsored by Edmund Ford Senior – during a virtual city council committee meeting. 

Jeff Warren: (during virtual meeting) The Memphis City Council hereby opposes the Byhalia Connection pipeline and requests that Byhalia Pipeline, LLC, seek an alternative route for its crude oil pipeline that does not pass through the city of Memphis.

Host: After the resolution is read into the record, the Council invites several speakers to present. 

Deidre Malone: Thank you, Committee Chairman Smiley … 

Host: The usual suspects – Plains public affairs advisor Deidre Malone and communications manager Katie Martin – speak on behalf of the pipeline. They talk about how most of the landowners in the pipeline’s path have already signed easements, though they don’t mention Scottie Fitzgerald or Clyde Robinson. And then… 

Justin J. Pearson: (during virtual meeting) I am Justin J. Pearson. I am not being paid by a billion dollar oil company. 

Host: Justin addresses the council for the first time on behalf of MCAP.

Justin J. Pearson: (during virtual meeting) The 600 homes that we knocked on those doors and told them what was happening, and they did not even know that a pipeline was being planned in their backyards. These are the people that today we are here to fight for. And we are here to represent, because this fight is far from over.

Host: And then a shout-out to their newest supporter. 

Justin J. Pearson: (during virtual meeting) This is the district that, uh, the wonderful Councilman Edmund Ford, Senior represents. You see Walker Homes and Boxtown, Westwood … where they are running this pipeline through and we couldn’t figure out why … They’re making poor black folks in residential areas carry the barrels of oil on their backs. This is what injustice looks like. This is what inequality looks like. And this is an opportunity for this esteemed council to do something.

J.B. Smiley:  (during virtual meeting) Thank you, Mr. Pearson uh, first of all, I’m just happy to see young folks engaged in what’s happening in our city. So kudos to you, uh, young man, uh, kudos, brother, kudos. 

Host: Despite the “kudos” from the chairman, the city council decides to postpone the vote on the resolution until it has more information. They’ll take it up again in two weeks. 


Host:  But mother nature has other plans … 

TV News Anchors: If you are just now joining us … we are under a winter storm warning. It’s a big deal here in the mid south. No question about it. We are in our sixth hour …

Host: For a week and a half in mid-February, Memphis experiences sub-freezing temperatures, capped off by a massive snowstorm.

TV News Reporter: The sleet is coming down hard and the road is very covered. You gotta be careful. You gotta be careful.

Host: It’s the longest stretch of below-freezing days since 1940. This snowstorm is worth mentioning because it throws into sharp relief two looming issues – the fragility of the water system, and the social and environmental impacts of Valero’s oil refinery here. After hundreds of water main and pipe breaks, the whole city goes on a boil water advisory. 

TV News Anchor: And low water pressure for hundreds of thousands of customers closed downtown buildings Monday and forced area hospitals to make adjustments.

Host: That makes securing clean drinking water jump from a theoretical future threat, to a daily reality. On top of that, one night the oil refinery has an unusually large flare – a burn-off of waste gas from its smokestacks. It lights up the winter sky with an unsettling orange fireball. 

TV News Anchor: Massive flames at the Valero refinery in south Memphis, that could be spotted miles away. 

Host: The flare releases drops of oil into a nearby creek and threatens air quality in the surrounding neighborhoods. Yet another reminder of the environmental burden southwest Memphis communities bear. 


Host: And for Scott Crosby, there’s one more important consequence of the snowstorm. 

Scott Crosby: It shut down everything for a week, including the courts. 


Host: The snowstorm delays the first eminent domain hearing yet again. This second pause, Scott says, was ‘serendipitous.’ It takes time to build a solid legal case and it’s becoming clear that this one is far more complex than the pipeline company had assumed it would be. When the hearing is finally rescheduled …  

Scott Crosby: By that time we had our shit together. 

Host: But even as the legal case is coming together, not everything in the pipeline fight is working out.  


Kathy Robinson: I will tell you the part where I felt like we weren’t going to win, and I’ve never told anybody this before.

Host: That’s Kathy Robinson again. She remembers that at this stage of the fight, she had been feeling optimistic. The landowners have a lawyer; there’s real movement in city council. Plus, just a few weeks before, President Biden was inaugurated. 

Kathy Robinson: We got somebody in the White House now, like Trump is gone. He didn’t care about the environment. Biden’s gonna be our man. Like we were like building all this momentum. And the feds freaking approved the permit. 


Host: She’s talking about Nationwide Permit 12. That’s the so-called “fast-track” federal permit that MCAP and its allies hoped the U.S. Army Corps would reject. But no … Despite all they’ve uncovered … despite all the support they’ve built … all the  progress they’ve made … the approval of the federal permit feels like a nail in the coffin.

Kathy Robinson: My heart actually dropped. I was just like, this is going to be built.


Host: Next time on Broken Ground… 

Justin J. Pearson: (at rally) There is no more passing the buck to the federal government. There’s no cavalry from the white house about to save us. 

Host: With both the state and federal permits approved … the landowners and the local politicians in Memphis are the two final dominoes blocking Byhalia’s path to build. 

Kathy Robinson: The state ain’t with us, the Feds ain’t with us. It’s Memphis versus everybody.

Credits: Broken Ground is a podcast by the Southern Environmental Law Center, one of the nation’s most powerful defenders of the environment, rooted in the South. It’s produced by Emily Richardson-Lorente, Pria Mahadevan, Leanna First-Arai and Jennie Daley, with assistance from Eli Motcyka and Ko Bragg. Our theme music is by Eric Knutson. Special thanks to Ward Archer, who provided archival audio for this podcast. For more information about SELC, MCAP, or Protect Our Aquifer, head to Broken Ground Podcast dot org. If you enjoyed this episode we’d love it if you’d subscribe and write us a review on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.